Back Pain Treatment & Opening A Back Pain Clinic During The COVID-19 Pandemic!

Welcome to the Back Pain Solutions Podcast – Back Pain Treatment & Opening A Back pain Clinic During The COVID-19 Pandemic!

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

If you like the show, we would be grateful if you would consider leaving the show a review on iTunes as well as Stitcher Radio. A couple minutes of your time can help the show immensely! Thank YOU!

Click here to subscribe via iTunes

Listen To The Episode Below

Episode Introduction

Many chiropractic clinics focus on simply removing your pain and then having you become reliant on passive treatment to maintain your musculoskeletal health. Whilst preventative maintenance has been shown to be effective in reducing the incidence of back pain we believe there should still be a focus on ensuring every individual is educated on how they can help themselves, be better educated on their back health, and learn strategies to take control of their own health. Helping to remove pain is important but helping people to remain pain free and become more active is even more important.

In this episode we discuss a new clinic that we have recently opened and the ambitions we have for the patients that come for our support. We discuss the importance of active rehabilitation, and collaboration, in ensuring patients get the best from their care. Empowering people to become a better version of themselves physically should be the aim for all practitioners and we discuss the motivations behind this approach. We talk about putting systems in place to develop healthy habits to support your back health and why you should feel safe visiting a chiropractic clinic during the current pandemic.

Some of the things you’ll discover…

Why you should feel safe seeing a chiropractor during the current COVID-19 pandemic?
Why establishing a routine is so important for your back, and your mental health?
Why there needs to be a different approaching to managing back health
There is no magic bullet in the management of back health, it requires effort
How our internal organs are there to support the musculoskeletal system in moving!
Why we believe you shouldn’t just focus on removing pain but on maximizing your potential

Episode Highlights

By taking a proactive, collaborative and active approach to the management of peoples back health that you’re adding value to their life, and you’re doing more than those individuals focused on passive care alone. If we can get somebody out of pain, stronger, and more confident in their bodies whilst we may never see them again, we at least know we’ve given them a toolkit that helps them manage their back health. It’s about helping those people to do more and feel better and that’s what’s most satisfying. But the ultimate aim should be to ensure people take a proactive approach to their health to avoid problems in the first place, that’s where the real change in healthcare will be in the future.

Episode Transcription

Intro 0:00
When we’re young, we move with freedom and confidence with a great resilience to injury. But somewhere along the line we develop poor habits and become more vulnerable to back pain, back pain solutions features evidence based and practical advice to help you take back control of your health and get back to the activities you love. This is your guide to better back health through movement. So join us as we demystify some of the commonly held beliefs about back pain and build your confidence to a stronger back the smartway

Ben James 0:28
Welcome back to the back pain solutions podcast Everybody with me, Ben James. And today, my co host is back. Jacob Steyn, the first show is done together for a while, it’s been a busy period, this end over in the UK, for me, particularly setting up a new chiropractic clinic or clinic, shall we say in general, because it’s going to be very much focused on multidisciplinary approach to back health and health in general, helping people in the good city of Birmingham, UK get back to the activities they love. So I thought it’d be a good opportunity to talk a little bit about that journey. And you had Jacob phone a few questions at me about how things go and what the vision is, and what I’ve been up to. So Jacob, welcome back. And it’s been a while it’s, as I say, been busy but exciting times.

Jacob Steyn 1:21
Yeah, absolutely. And today, here in the Netherlands, it’s only two degrees, or at least it was two degrees around lunchtime. So that was a little bit of an adaptation for me,

Ben James 1:34
South African living in the cold, it’s not good.

Jacob Steyn 1:39
Now, it’s definitely it’s definitely always a little bit of a shock, just in the beginning of the the very cold period here in the Netherlands. But it’s good, because I had the shock. And now I’m adapted, and I can face it again. And it was not that bad.

Ben James 1:56
You come out, you come out from hibernation again now.

Jacob Steyn 1:59
Exactly.

Ben James 2:02
How have things been over there in this kind of post lockdown or still locked down depending on where you are. And both terms of city and country and everything else. I’ve lost track

Jacob Steyn 2:15
Yeah we recently had another smaller lockdown period of I think it was about two weeks. And if I have to translate it was called the smart lockdown this slimmer lockdown. Yeah. And it was there. We were all a little bit afraid of what was going to be the new rules. But actually, they didn’t make that many changes. That was only the restaurants really, that suffered badly and had had to close down again. But I yeah, I think you know, I mean, it was all kind of floating along with, with the general rules. And we I think people are becoming a little bit more lacks more relaxed when it comes to you know, sticking to the rules. But I think generally I think we’re doing okay, I’m not I’m not an expert. So please, nobody hold me up for anything I say wrong about this. But I think the Netherlands or the Netherlands is doing a good job of keeping the numbers down and staying, staying sane.

Ben James 3:18
Nice, good to hear.

Jacob Steyn 3:20
How about England? What’s going on over there?

Ben James 3:23
Yeah, we’re in a, we’re in a current lockdown at the moment. So that’s until second of December. So we’re recording 30th of November, here in 2020, when we hopefully, some states will be listening back to this in years to configure them what on earth was this COVID thing. But we’re still in a in a lockdown for second to December. And then there’s a new tiered system. So depending on what area you’re in, you’re in a tier one, tier two, or tier three. But I think there’s a small handful of places that are going to be in Tier tier one. And the rest of tier twos or threes, three is the worst. And depending on where you are depends on what you’re allowed to do. So

Jacob Steyn 4:04
Which tier Are you currently,

Ben James 4:06
So we’ll be in tier two here and in where I live, but Birmingham, where the practice is going to be will be tier three. So that’s kind of highest level restrictions there. But as as we’ve been discussing with, with clients, and with people calling about their back health and getting some advice, we’re in the lucky position that we we can really effectively control you know, our, our processes that so infection control, actually, as a as a clinic is is really quite easy. You know, we can control a number of patients coming in and out or the traffic is pretty low anyway. And in terms of patients coming in through the doors, and and we can clean down really effectively in between patients. We’re fully PPA and so actually not really Impact is too much.

Jacob Steyn 5:00
What kind of records are you taking?

Ben James 5:02
Yeah, so we’ve got, obviously, we’re following advice from the general chiropractic Council, British chiropractic council who, clearly they take advice from, you know, from, from the government, in terms of what they’re advising us to do and doing risk assessments and things. But we will be kind of born in one outpatient generally. And so when we’re not having patients, obviously, sitting in a waiting area, as you would normally, normally experience, every patient coming in is, is masked. And if they don’t come in with a mask, then they they’ve got to buy one. Obviously, low cost, but just covers the overheads because it’s an additional cost, you know, but we’re fully PPE with a with a mask and a visor and an apron and gloves. And, you know, we’re changing in between patients spraying the bench down, spraying the chairs down, and then the next patient comes through. So it’s really quite easy to manage, and compared to so many other businesses, I guess. So it’s, it’s, it’s been running really smoothly and patients, certainly that were in lockdown previously, and we’re somewhat concerned about exposure and about the virus have felt really pretty confident with the processes we’ve got in place, they’ve, you know, it’s for a number that it’s, you know, it’s been the first it’s been a first journey out. And since this kind of new world, and they feel they feel safe, which is great.

Jacob Steyn 6:37
When When did you start the practice? Tell us more about it?

Ben James 6:41
Yeah, so I mean, the practice was due to open earlier in the year. And then then lockdown happens. So the building work and things on the, on the building, which we’ve taken a lease out on was, was delayed. So it’s been pushed back, we’ve been open now, just over a week, and get in a steady flow of patients through but in a, in a current lockdown environment, as we’ve all become accustomed to, clearly that comes with its its challenges, but then people still have back issues and back pain, and they need help and, and they know with the confidence of the processes we’ve got in place, they can come and get that advice, we get that help. And, and it’s working really, really effectively. And if anything, you know, we’ve seen an increase in the number of back cases, as we’ve we’ve kind of just previously, as a result of this new this new world because people are working from home. And there must be such a high percentage of people that are just rolling over in bed in the morning and jumping on the laptop, you know, I said it in episode, you know, setting a routine and get an hour kind of almost a system in place for yourself, not just for your physical health, but your mental health, I think is really important. And that’s something that I’d encourage everybody to do. Because it’s just too easy, isn’t it, particularly as you say, when it’s getting colder, it’s getting darker in the mornings, and it’s been pretty wet over here in the UK, there’s gonna be a lot of people that are working from home and just seeing just rail rollover, five more minutes, grab the laptop, and before they know it midday, and they’re still lying in bed, you know, and that’s not good for an overall health view. But particularly low back for sure.

Jacob Steyn 8:24
That’s been that’s been my experience, you know, people first have to, that’ll have to, but generally, they end up getting pain and low back pain, neck pain, shoulder pain, and then they start thinking of creating some sort of routine because I see, well, it’s just not working, the usual way of working would have been getting in the car, driving somewhere or taking the train moving, going for a walk or a lunch, walking from one office to another and now it’s not happening, and they just end up accumulating stiffness and lack of movement. And with a lot of our patients, it’s just gone terribly wrong. And so they, they now realize that this the necessity of creating a routine, as you mentioned, of taking a break, doing a few exercise in the morning, go for a walk, maybe go for a cycle, or at least get some fresh air. You know, and yeah, there’s a lot to say about that. So like, like you just mentioned, my experience is that there’s been a massive increase in complaints, physical complaints because of working at home. So yeah, I hope. I hope they come your way and you can help them with that.

Ben James 9:37
Yeah, well, they need it, you know, and and if nothing else, they need the need the encouragement, they need the motivation. Because we’ve all I think or many, many people have just become flat and frustrated with it. And, you know, that’s a bad thing. Again, not just from a physical health point of view from a mental health point of view as well, you know, yeah, and even if we’re just kind of helping to encourage people To, to take action and do a bit of exercise every day. Because, you know, as we both do, Jacob we both encourage and support recommend and believe in exercise for, for backhaul for overall health. And, again, you know, some people have taken action and taking this as an opportunity to get in shape and take, take, take advantage of the situation, but a significant portion, proportion of people have have done less and eaten worse. So, it’s it, it’s been nice to kind of sit down and have conversations with people just to try and encourage them and motivate them a little bit and, and via, via a different set of ears for for them to talk to, I suppose, because that’s good, because, you know, part of part of the job is to, is to reassure and encourage and there’s, there’s often stories that we get told from patients that are completely unrelated to their back health, but actually indirectly could be related. But if not, we can still help and support in some way. And that’s part of the relationship that we’re looking to build with our patients at the new clinic, you know, to take a proactive and preventative approach to, to their health, but also to optimize them to to be a better, stronger version of themselves so they can get back to the activities they love. And more.

Jacob Steyn 11:22
Yeah, and like I like to think is you help them to create a strategy to get through whatever they need to get through. Yeah, whether it’s getting better or creating that, that healthy routine, or, you know, making whatever they do sustainable. It’s about that strategy and keeping that strategy in mind, and maybe they haven’t had a strategy or maybe they’ve had one and they needed adjusting, and then it’s two heads better than one, creating that strategy and going with it. But, Ben, I want to know from you. Like you say, you’ve been open for a week now. Like, what’s been the motivation to open the practice over there? And tell me more about that, please?

Ben James 12:02
Yeah, well, I mean, I i’ve, as you know, I graduated with you, or, or just before you, when you went back to take a year out in South Africa. And my early experiences were, were a little bit disappointing. It’s fair to say, and very much about this kind of, I wouldn’t even say a wack crack approach, but it was, it was not what I envisaged from a career as a chiropractor. And I went on this kind of journey of doing other things and helping people from a, from an exercise point of view friends and family, because that’s what I believed in. And over time to more and more of that, and taking more of an active approach in a movement based approach, and kind of reflected on my own training and my own kind of experiences as well have a built in a better and healthier core, I guess. And, you know, it just felt like there was there was a missing a missing gap or a gap in the market to some degree, as bizarre as that may sound, certainly over here in in the area I’m working, that that is very much movement based and is very much focused on getting people to be confident in the way that they move and confident that they have the strength and resilience to avoid injury and pain in the future, not just focus on this passive care. And this not I wouldn’t say it’s it’s maybe not fair to say a fear based approach to to management of back health, but it’s more proactive educational based approach to help people understand their bodies better so that they are better prepared to help themselves and not just rely on treatment for for that back house. Now, you know, as we say, there’s there’s a lot of people that come to see us and we’ve got to be realistic with their expectations and people will, we’re not designed to to live the lives that we lead. And this is one of the big things that that I focus on with patients, we’ve got to look at how we manage your back health. And in some instances that does involve kind of long term care, but the collaboration that we’re forming with patients is very much focused on Yes, early passive treatment and maybe more intense, passive treatment, but always giving them some exercises and things to do in the early stages. And that that is what increases further down the line along the journey so that they are so much stronger and more resilient as a result. That’s that’s the ambition here that that hopefully will set us apart so that we can help manage people’s pain but but also within realistic expectations because unfortunately, for many, we we can’t avoid the daily repetitive nature of the work that we do. And that is that is one of the big challenges that we’re educating people on that I think People often overlook, they just assume that that shouldn’t be an issue or sitting for long periods should be okay. But actually, you know, as we know, that’s just not the case.

Jacob Steyn 15:10
Yeah. So yeah, I, what you’re really saying is that your approach is different to many of the other people who work as chiropractors or physiotherapist, who are more lots of exercise orientated but more, both focus more on the passive aspect of treatment, you will be combining it focusing more on the long term outcome, educating patients. Is that would you say your strategy is?

Ben James 15:41
Yeah, exactly. And that’s not to say that, you know, other approaches on don’t work for some people, and because clearly, clearly they do. But for me, it just doesn’t make sense, the patient is just relying on passive care, and there is always going to be a segment of the population that are not prepared to do exercise, and therefore, they’ve got to expect that, okay, maybe you need more frequent treatment and sessions to help keep on top of your back health or your pain or whatever it might be. But as, as you all know, and testify to Jacob, if patients come in and see us, and we could do passive care all day, every day, if they then leave the clinic, and go back to that one activity, that is the cause of the problem, the cause of the pain, whether that be sitting all day, or whatever it might be in the work that they do, or, or maybe even exercise they do at the gym, or some form of sporting activity, if we’re not taking away the root cause, then we could treat them all day every day, and they still wouldn’t really get a long term resolution. And, and like I say, Not everyone’s going to get resolution as in out of pain for forever. But we can effectively manage back health really, really successfully with, with a combined approach of, of passive care when needed. But certainly active care. And I think there needs to be more of a focus on on the active case of people feel more in control. And that’s where we want to get people to be so that they’re more confident. And, and they’re, and they’re happier and healthier in their bodies.

Jacob Steyn 17:17
You know, yeah, I think a lot of people, I think back at myself when I was younger, if, you know, I was also looking for that one treatment that would just fix everything and leave me with pristine health or, you know, remembering what my back was like, and my my health was like in the past, and I wanted that back. And I thought if I could just get that guy or get that person to give me that, you know, and I think a lot of people are willing to pay a lot of money just for that, for that specific, one of treatment, that magic bullet. But I think part of our jobs, and what you’re really describing is the the reality. And that is by teaching, the person that comes in who has had recurrent episodes of back pain or whatever sort of problem they’ve had, that, you know, if you’re 40 years old, and you’ve had 20 years sitting by the computer, there’s, there’s some mileage on your spine, you aren’t 18 years old anymore. You know, I look at my one year old, and I see him crawl and do everything and I go, man, he’s like, he’s looking up every movement possible, and he spine and they’ll just kill me, you know, but I can’t go back to that time. I’m 38. And I have some mile mileage on my spine. In other words, I need to I need to now know that if I’m gonna want to keep it as good as it is I need a strategy and I need to do I need to do something for it. And that’s part of the education you have to give somebody when they come in and make help them realize that this is not a magic bullet, you know, and as much as I want to charge you 1000 euros or 1000 pounds and tell you that if I just do this, you’re gonna be fine. It just, it’s just not possible. So no, actually,

Ben James 19:08
Yeah. And when you look at your own strategies, the amount of training you’ve done from a functional point of view, you know, how often do you actually go and get an adjustment?

Jacob Steyn 19:17
Now, I would say I get an adjustment maybe once in two months. Okay.

Ben James 19:23
Yeah. So it’s very much focused on active care, isn’t it? Alongside good nutrition.

Jacob Steyn 19:29
You know, 99% Yeah, of what I’m doing in terms of making sure that my low back stays good. From my hernia history, which I’ve mentioned in previous episodes, about a serious episode of back rolls for Louis 10 years younger, is solely focused on the active approach. Yeah, and I’ve tried everything and I’ve been there and I’ve tried the mobility courses I’ve done. It’ll bottles courses, which is probably the most extreme I know of in terms of looking at mobility and Look complete opposite to the theory that myself and you are following. And I have to say the the approach that we’re advocating and we’re working with, and that I, that I’ve been doing the last few years is actually absolutely the thing that has saved my, my back. And so my life,

Ben James 20:19
Yeah, and it just makes so much sense. You know, when you look at the anatomy and physiology, it just makes so much sense to develop that core stiffness to develop that, that control and the endurance of those muscles that are so fundamentally important in supporting the spine. And that when you when you when you reflect and just think about passive care, you kind of left scratching your head, because it just makes no sense to think that that’s the only way, you know,

Jacob Steyn 20:45
Exactly, I can definitely put it together with the the puzzle as a piece or a couple of pieces. But you mean, in the end, we want to move. And if you can’t move properly, which is the whole reason why I think we’re here is, you know, first of all we have to eat, we have to procreate. But the thing is that if and I remember Craig leaves and saying this one set a course he said, you know, the, the med medicine is very busy with looking at the organs and systems of the body, but the organs and the gut, and all of those systems are actually supporting and making sure that the musculoskeletal system can do its thing. And that’s stuck with me forever and roll I will remember it. And that’s it, you want the musculoskeletal system, you want it to work optimally properly, and then you want to enjoy it.

Ben James 21:45
Yeah, and I think that’s where a lot of the satisfaction comes from helping people to enjoy their bodies again, you know, yes, we’re getting them out of pain and pain cells, because that’s what draws a lot of people in. But it’s when you can kind of educate and help those people on a journey. And I was treating a guy recently. And he, he’s, I’m still seeing him now. But he came in for a problem, it was a lateral epicondyle Lj had been playing a lot of tennis vigorously, as soon as lockdown was over and went over the top. And but actually, you know, we’re not just focused on that elbow, we’re focused on, well, let’s look at, let’s look at the core strength as part of that journey. Because, you know, let’s look at it holistically, because you’re putting so much effort into that backhand shot, and it’s all the powers coming from the arm and the elbow, let’s look at what we can do proximately to support your, your, your core strength, so you’ve got a better, stronger platform, he’s got a history of low back pain as well. And suddenly, you know, weeks down the line, the elbows getting better. But what’s even more satisfying is when he said, I feel more in control of my core. And I’ve put on an I’ve put on muscle mass by doing these exercises that you’re doing. So he just feels so much better. And that’s what satisfying what you can get patients not just out of pain and, and feeling comfortable. But you can empower them to do more, feel better, and and feel like they can do more and be be motivated to do more. That’s where all satisfaction I think comes from.

Jacob Steyn 23:18
Yeah, I recognize what you’re what you’re saying there, I see that when they tell you that they actually feel good about what they’ve achieved. And you know, they’ll sometimes they’ll touch their abs and they’ll go look, you know, I’m getting stronger. And this is this is because I’ve been working on it. And you know, when they feel good about themselves, I feel good about myself, because I’ve done my job properly and

Ben James 23:43
You know that you’re adding value to them to their life, you know, and you know, that that you’re you’re adding more value than a lot of people out there that would would very focus on doing the passive work and Robin a few muscles and if you go and just sit right with me that that’s that, that that’s the right approach because you know, if I can if I can get somebody out of pain, stronger, more confident in their bodies, and and maybe never see them again, but they’ve got a toolkit that helps them manage their back health and get get back to doing more activity or certainly activities. They want to do pain free, then I mean, what a result motor what a satisfying job compared to chop. Just Yeah, just kind of keeping those patients coming back and adjusting and adjusting and, and that way. Yes, as I say it works for some, and it works very well for some and that’s and that’s great. But for me, it’s about helping those people to do more and feel better. And and that’s what makes it so satisfying. And that’s why we’ve opened the clinic and that’s why we’re we’re very excited by it in the It is just beginning, but, but the patients coming through, and we’re getting some good early reviews and, and it’s, it’s going to be an exciting journey. And we, you know, we want to look at the long term, the long term options in terms of looking at the nutrition and maybe opening a gym as part of it and an all good stuff that could be ultimately a kind of a preventative approach to health. And that’s really where I want to take it, and, and get that that portion of the population that are interested. But unfortunately, many of those people need to be in pain first. And and that’s a much longer term project, to change the way that people think. So that they’re, they’re taking action, before they’ve got a problem. To prevent it, rather than having to undo something first. And get a stage, you know, what a world we live in, because we’ll be saving an ordinate amount of money on health care for for type two diabetes, and obesity and all those things that are all to a large extent, our own fault. And, and, and just but, but making people enjoy their lives so much better. Because there’s no doubt that if people move more, they move with more confidence, and they eat better. They’re just going to live better lives. There’s, and I think that’s where a lot of people will self reflect on this on this year, and think well, you know, what, can I be doing more to, to proactively look after myself? Because we know the stats are showing that, that people are that are obese and people that are diabetic are at greater risk of covid? Well, that should be a message to a lot of people to, to take a bit more of a proactive approach to health and not just be complacent about it, because it’s a problem.

Jacob Steyn 26:53
Absolutely. And, yeah, I think there’s a lot of adjusting that needs to happen at the end of this year, going into the next one, if things aren’t going to change, and I don’t see it changing quickly. I have a feeling it’s going to stay like this for quite a while so. And I think businesses have already adapted to this new way of working. And so I think there’s going to be even more responsibility on the shoulders of people who work from home. And I think that’s, that’s definitely going to require them to be thinking of that healthier routine, thinking of a strategy, how to cope with all the the FaceTime on the laptop, and, you know, and, and maybe finding a balanced way of getting through the day. And

Ben James 27:40
Yeah, and simple strategies can make a difference, you know, get up, put your headphones in, and put that phone in your pocket and go for a walk while you’re having that call. You know, we Yes, I understand that people have got to be on on FaceTime, as it were, for some of these calls. But not not every corner, there’s there’s a lot of course, people are just dialing into, maybe have to make appointments or search, but I think most companies would support getting out and doing some walking, etc, etc. So there are some simple things people can be doing, you know, take five minutes out your day, every couple of hours and just do an exercise. You know, we recommend a lot of exercise on the website, whether it’s something like the dog or modified, sit up or, you know, side plank, you know, you don’t have to do all your exercises in one, go do them throughout the day. And use that as a break, take five minutes out and do it. And it’s just little strategies that are going to make a big difference to people. Not just again, I reiterate the point, but not just from a physical health point of view, but a mental health point of view, people just need time out. And if anything, I think unfortunately frustrating then sadly, a lot of people are doing more now behind the desk behind it. And ever before because they’re not getting to the printer. And they’re not having that quick coffee break with a with a colleague. And so it and that’s why we’re seeing increasing incidence of back pain and an increase in problems because and the other element of it is people are fearful of losing losing their jobs. And that’s, you know, a sad element of this whole situation, of course. But it’s sad that some companies are taken advantage of with which is which is not graceful, really. But what I what I also hear a lot of my patients saying is you know, the amount of work they have to do, there isn’t a set amount that there’s just never ending. So whether they do this much today or less today, it doesn’t matter. There’s always more to do. And if that’s the case, then you need to have a strategy where you’re going to deal with how you’re going to manage your time and how much time you’re going to spend working on certain things is Yeah, and that’s why it’s just so important to say well, if you know you’re gonna have a hectic day, get out and do that walk first thing, at least you’ve done it and you can feel more positive you’ve done it and, and do it at the end of the day as well. And if that means going out in the dark and putting a head torch on and putting a coat on in the weather, just do it. But take ACC, because you’re going to feel so much better for it. Because otherwise you know, we we face a long period of, of being at home and being in one, one environment. And that can’t be a good thing either. So, so but my advice to everyone is just do something no matter how little every day and build build from there.

Jacob Steyn 30:26
So tell me, where can people find your practice.

Ben James 30:31
So the practice is in the centre of Birmingham, it’s the pain and injury clinic Birmingham, where there’s another got another successful practice in Henley in Arden, which is in Warwickshire. And the actual address is 3 Temple Row West, Birmingham, it’s on Cathedral Square, which is a beautiful part of the City. Right in the centre a short walk from a couple of the main train stations so people can find it there they can find us at www.painandinjury clinic.co.uk. And on Instagram as well paintings, you click Birmingham, and Facebook, all those usual channels, we’re putting more and more content out there over time. Just little things, exercises and things to just help people motivate people and give them little challenges. But you can find us there. And we look forward to helping you and happy to hear from you. And if you want to give us a call and just do so and take some action even if it’s just to get a bit of advice or to get a bit of reassurance, then pick up the phone and do something don’t just leave it don’t just wait for a problem to occur because undoubtedly it will if you don’t do something.

Jacob Steyn 31:45
Thats great Ben I I’ve been enjoying talking about well change of direction or the new journey. And I as your good friend and colleague, I wish you all the best with your practice and your plans and your mission and your goals and it’s only the start but I’m very confident that it’s going to grow and it’s going to go somewhere beautiful. So all the best for that my friend.

Ben James 32:12
I appreciate it my friend yeah and I can’t wait when when they were able to get back to a bit of training over in Nijmegen at the gym over there and back to a bit of normality and and of course continue to build out our program online which is which is the the big focus and the big project for us as well alongside the work that we do with patients face to face you in Holland me over here in the UK, but to get the online programs completed and and available to people across the globe, because like we say, yeah, we want to reach a wider audience and help a wider segment of the population and, and the internet allows us to do that. So as always, we encourage everyone to head on over to the website, www dot smart, strong coda UK. You can find us there and ask any questions there. If you don’t live close to Birmingham in the UK or Nijmegen over in Holland, then certainly get in touch with us via the website for some questions, happy to help happy to answer them. Happy to jump on a call if it helps you to take some control and get some reassurance about your back health. And as always, we ask you to put a rating and review on iTunes. It really helps us to spread the word spread the message and help more people. So join us again and we shall continue with our content. We will continue with the episodes and watch the space for the for the course when we launch that next year. Jacob thanks again. And we’ll speak again soon

Transcribed by https://otter.ai